EVOKEN – Between Worlds and Time

When I originally came across Evoken's crushing 2005 record "Antithesis of Light" my world was grinded in a matter of minutes. Perhaps it was one of the most important music-related moments of my life. The New Jersey-based funeral doom metal quintet have since released the masterpiece "A Caress of the Void" in 2007 and the latest pummeling opus "Atra Mors", which came out in July 2012 on Profound Lore. The band went through some line-up changes and at the moment guitarist/vocalist John Paradiso and drummer Vince Verkay are the only original members of the band that was formed twenty years ago. Nevertheless, Evoken are in their prime with the success of their fifth full-length and finally some more exposure from the media. Vince Verkay spoke to We Wither to tell us where the band is at the beginning of 2013.

There are three new members in the band since the release of the previous record "A Caress of the Void". Did that affect the writing process for "Atra Mors"?
Absolutely. Every album we have written, all members had some input into the writing, but this album was truly an effort on everyone’s part. We all have similar influences and enjoyment of various forms of music, but each member also has their own unique interests. With that being the case, it definitely gave this album the upper hand.

Does writing 10 minute-long songs take longer than shorter tracks? Do you tend to improvise a lot in the studio or is it all riffs prepared before and put in order?
Naturally, a 10 minute plus song will take longer to write than a 3 to 4 minute song, but we never compromise. So even our shorter tracks or the various instrumentals we have written over the years have taken some time to write. We always make sure we are 100% satisfied with every riff, every song before we decide any song is completed.
We do improvise in the studio as well. Before we even book the studio time, we prepare and rehearse each song as much as often as we can. We make sure that the foundation for each song is built. The reality is, we really do not have the luxury of going into the studio with half-baked material. We have to make absolutely sure each song is completed with regards to the writing. Since we don’t have the advantage of having our own studio, we have to book and pay studio costs via the record label, thus we are limited to a budget.
At the same time, we don’t allow ourselves to be painted into a corner, sticking only to what we have planned for each song. Once we have the songs themselves recorded, it’s when we begin the mixing process where there is a fair amount of improvisation. We also record additional pieces of music that someone in the band may have written after the fact, which we can attempt to incorporate into the album. It can also be something as innocent as coming across a mistake. What I mean is, we could be mixing a song, hearing it without a certain instrument being brought up in the mix, only to discover that leaving out a guitar section at one point, only to bring the guitar in maybe halfway through one measure creates more of an impact in atmosphere. Or simply recorded a heavy door being closed, hearing it before the song starts, only to wind up using it in a song, things of that nature. Those are just two small examples of how things change once we start recording a new album.

Extreme doom metal seems to be in its prime at the moment, with such strong records as "Atra Mors" or Mournful Congregation's "The Book of Kings", Esoteric's "Paragon of Dissonance" and Mourning Beloveth's "Formless". Would you agree with that? Do you feel there is a bigger demand for such music than, for example, ten years ago?
I agree 100%. The genre has gone through so many changes in the last decade. I think it’s definitely beneficial that this genre experienced these changes at a methodical pace, no surprise there. It’s not a genre that simply exploded overnight. The bands that blazed a new path for the genre, handing things off to newer bands that took those various elements and adding their own touch. With each change came with it more fans and each subsequent change attracted even more fans.
The demand has also definitely increased. A decade ago, we never would have attracted the attention “Atra Mors” has to this point. I don’t believe any of us would have experienced playing in larger venues or stages, or witnessed the increase in attendance at our shows ten years ago. For Evoken, ten years ago we would see maybe 20-30 people attending our shows, and that would be on a good night. Now, we’re seeing what we thought impossible, to sell a show out.
I also think it’s reflective of the times we live in. Movies, music, books are all a product of the period they exist in. There is no short supply of depression [in] this day and age. With the extremes of our climate, the failing economy, the increase in wars and illness, be it consciously or subconsciously, people gravitate toward the music that represents that period of time.

Did you notice more attention being paid to your records in the last couple of years? Did the wider metal public finally learn to appreciate extreme doom metal?
We definitely have seen more attention swing our way the last few years, the last couple of albums. I really can’t say there’s any one reason why metal fans are more aware of the genre. I believe every band in doom has been consistent in dedication and passion toward this music. I think it ranges from the internet giving us a boost, allowing the music to reach a far wider audience to people growing tired of listening to the increase in bands playing more technical or playing at one extremely fast pace. I believe if you asked ten people that same question, you will probably get seven different answers.

fot. by Maclyn Bean

In January 2013 Evoken participated in the Decibel Magazine 100th issue show in Philadelphia with Pig Destroyer, Converge, Tombs, Repulsion and Municipal Waste. How did it go? Do you feel comfortable on a bill with much different bands to Evoken?
It went fantastic. Everyone treated us with extreme generosity, all the bands tried to help each other out with equipment use, and every band was very friendly. The turnout and reception we received was incredible. We were blown away by the reception we received.
We feel very comfortable playing with bands that are at opposite ends of the spectrum from us. I think it allows us to really stick out, it gives us the opportunity to play in front of an audience that, more than likely, would never have attended an Evoken show. It’s something that allows us the platform to gain new fans as well. Don’t get me wrong, we absolutely enjoy playing with other doom bands or festivals, but after a while you can wind-up getting lost in the pack, I think at times you can lose that impact depending on where you’re playing. So, we welcome the notion of playing on line-ups very different from us.

You recorded Paradise Lost's "Rotting Misery" for the Decibel Magazine vinyl series. Was it recorded at the same time as "Atra Mors" or did you do it later because of the offer from Decibel?
We recorded it around the same time. The offer to record “Rotting Misery” came  a few months prior to entering the studio to record “Atra Mors”. We are so appreciative not only for everything Decibel has done for us, but to also get the opportunity to record a legendary track, from a legendary band, and include that cover as a part of Decibel’s monumental 100th edition.

Evoken doesn't tour that much and quite sporadically visit Europe, so how did your lives look between the release of "A Caress of the Void" in 2007 and recording the new album?
Well, we are always trying to improve our live sound, attempting to come as close to the sound of the album, only heavier. We’re also trying to improve on any visuals on stage as well to increase our live atmosphere, so things are changing, albeit slowly, but we have so many ideas, some realistic, some not that we are looking to bring into our live environment.

Do you ever shorten your songs when performing live to be able to present more tracks?
No, not really. I think there has been two events where we altered our songs to fit more material into the allotted time.

Though there are some extreme doom metal bands all over the world, the States, England, Australia, Russia and Scandinavia, it remains one of metal's smallest sub-genres. And actually only a few, Evoken amongst them, do it on the top level. Do you take pride in being one of the few?
We take intense pride in being recognized by fans and bands all over the world, it’s something we will never take for granted.

Could you point out the records or specific songs that in your opinion influenced or created extreme doom metal?
That’s really, for me, such a difficult question to provide a solid answer on. I couldn’t really present certain songs as absolute representation since there is a mish-mash of different elements in various songs that I believe influenced us anyway. I would have to point out Thergothon "Stream from the Heavens", Disembowelment "Transcendence into the Peripheral", Winter "Into Darkness", in a non-direct way Type O Negative "Slow, Deep and Hard" and Autopsy "Mental Funeral".

Are Evoken lyrics metaphors and simply the fruit of your imagination or do they refer to your own emotions or experiences? Could you choose one song from "Atra Mors" and describe what affected those exact words?
They are a bit of both, really. I cannot speak for the others, but my lyrics tend to be more metaphoric than reality or true life experiences. I tend to avoid interfering with the listener’s take on any of my lyrics with the definition of various lyrics I write. I like for the listener to create their own world, their own interpretation of the lyrics. If anything, I would say the lyrics for “Atra Mors” are more direct in creating a setting or story than past lyrics. So, I’m going to remain consistent in my thinking when it comes to the lyrics and keep silent on any meaning or what affected the writing behind any lyrics. To be honest, I am more interested in hearing a listener describe the setting they experience when reading any particular song’s lyrics.

fot. by Derek Brad

No other metal sub-genre than extreme doom produces such an overwhelming and hypnotic atmosphere where listener travels between worlds and time. Is playing Evoken songs such a deep and moving experience as well?
Without one single doubt they are, as I am sure the others would answer the same. That’s what drives us, what keeps us attempting to create songs just as intense in experience for each of us as prior songs. When we play these songs, it doesn’t matter if it’s live or in rehearsals or just writing them, there is a surge of emotion that flows within me. It’s the hair standing up on my arms, or back of my neck, the intense anger or hatred toward humanity I feel that brings my breathing to a deep and slow pace guiding me to play harder behind the kit. I equal it to an intense high I am chasing every time we play. There is nothing more gratifying for me than experiencing the surge when we are creating a new song, which allows my mind to focus all that hatred and dark emotions toward humanity and expressing into the physical, something tangible. I never want to lose that gift.

MARDUK - Burning Black Flame

Swedish group Marduk, commanded by its only original member, guitarist and main composer Morgan Håkansson, is a fine example of an underground band, which through its impeccable consistency, dedication and persistence made it to the extreme elite already years ago. May 2012 saw the release of the band's crushing twelfth full-length "Serpent Sermon", their first release for Century Media. It's their fourth record since the departure of the charismatic frontman Legion in 2003. Completed with new vocalist Mortuus, "Angel Plague", "Rom 5:12", "Wormwood" and the latest opus surely belong to Marduk's strongest offerings to date. Morgan spoke to We Wither to explain what fuels his desire for metal destruction, why is it important to tour and his vast interest in history.

You were a 17-year-old kid in 1990. The Marduk biography says that you wanted to create the most brutal and blasphemous metal act ever. What kind of person were you at the time?

Back then I was very young and hungry. I never really wanted to be the most blasphemous because I didn't want to compete with anyone. Around 1990 a lot of metal bands became mellow and mainstream, which we really disliked. With Marduk we wanted to bring back that darkness and hate to metal music, which we think is essential.

After twenty years on stage and twelve albums how do you maintain the energy and will to keep doing what you're doing? What drives you, is it anger, passion, a need to prove something?

I feel a black flame burning inside me, which fuels everything I do and it drives my actions with Marduk. It keeps me hungry and eager to stay on course in my long dark journey that started over two decades ago. I'm inspired by the people I play with, we inspire each other and push ourselves to do extreme music. Together we create magic and we let the energy loose which affects our sound. It's a pure reflection of our spirits. I don't feel a need to prove anything. I never experience that.

Since Mortuus joined Marduk in 2004, he seems to have had a huge impact on the band. You recorded songs which correspond very well with what he's doing with Funeral Mist, for example, tracks such as "Accuser/Opposer", "Coram Satanae" and "Funeral Dawn". Did the results or your collaboration top your expectations?

It absolutely passed my expectations but from the beginning I knew we would be able to do great things together since Mortuus is as eager and passionate for extreme music as I am. He has got such a unique voice so the fact that some of Marduk songs sound a little bit like Funeral Mist is natural and doesn't bother me at all. I think we’ve achieved fantastic things so far and there is so much more to follow in the future. We constantly work and even only a month or two after releasing "Serpent Sermon" we have already started writing for the next record.

Does replacing the original logo on the cover of "Serpent Sermon" mean anything or is it just refreshing the band's image?

Some people asked me why we dumped our original logo and that's a mistake because we never got rid of it. On this album we decided to use the alternative logo, which by the way has been in use for some time now, since it looked better with this particular cover art. The original Marduk logo is something I'm very proud of and we would never dump it. I actually hate when bands do that. Possessed got rid of the white inverted cross from their logo when they released "Beyond the Gates", which really sucked.

fot. by Herman Stehouwer

Do you write and perform sensing there is pressure on your work?

I don't feel any pressure at all. I just try to get out what I have inside and channel it through music. I do what I think is right for myself and Marduk and I believe in my creativity, that's what artists do.

You start your hell of a European tour in August 2012 in Poland and finish it after over forty dates in October in Poland again. You also recorded the live album "Warschau" here. Is this a coincidence or is Poland more important to you somehow?

Yes, it is important. One of the reasons for it is that our booking agency Massive Music is from Poland, so it's great to be able to start and finish the tour there. It's very good logistically for us as well. This tour is indeed a huge one. It's 40 shows in 48 days. I have always been interested in Warsaw since it's a place connected to the history of many wars, not only the Second World War. I'm very interested in the history of wars between Sweden and Poland in the sixteenth century. I read a lot about that period. It has always been a great inspiration to me. The idea to record a live show in Warsaw was fantastic since it's a historical city and we always had very successful tours in Poland and we have extremely dedicated fans over there.

You have always toured a lot around the world. Ten or fifteen years ago Eastern Europe was a place where fans were really crazy and all the bands were talking about it. This was also the case in South America. Do you still feel the extreme and exciting hunger for metal amongst the fans now as in the ‘90s? Are metal-heads as devoted as they used to be?

Its hard to say, it gets better or worse from time to time. Actually I think it's getting better again lately. Wherever we go, Europe, America or Asia, we always meet very dedicated and fanatical fans. That's why we push each other to go to new places and reach as many new countries and cities as possible. It's very exciting to play in new places. It doesn't even matter if there is a huge crowd or only a bunch of people. Eastern Europe was always the best place to tour, it's like a highlight but there are awesome fans all over the world.

You have so much material that it must be difficult to choose the set-list each time you tour. Do you ever think about which songs fans would like to hear or do you not compromise at all in this field?

We always perform only the tracks we want to and don’t compromise. For me what's important is the present. I believe that the band is as strong as its last album. I don't want to live in the past, though we play some older songs too because we are proud of the older material as well. My idea for live shows is to play as many new songs as possible. I like to present the new material live whenever we go on tour so we usually put quite a few new tracks in the set.

Lots of musicians joined and left Marduk over the years. Supposedly so far you’ve had three vocalists, three guitarists, two bass players and three drummers who are no longer in the band. According to your experience, what position is the most difficult to replace?

I would say it's the vocalist. In my opinion, to find a charismatic frontman who is determined and 100% devoted is definitely a very hard thing. There are lots of awesome guitarists and drummers around but good vocalists are rare. When I recruited Mortuus I didn't want him to be a copy of Legion and was sure that he would be able to lift Marduk to another level because of his extraordinary energy and dedication. His voice is so unique that you recognize it right away when you put the record on. I don't think that's been the case with any of our drummers, though they are all good musicians.

Most metal bands have two guitarists but not Marduk, apart from your early years when Devo was a guitar player. Do you think playing with one guitar makes metal more straightforward?

In a way it does, though it can sometimes sound a little empty. If you ask me about the current line-up, I have to say I feel very confident with one guitar right now. The whole band is very tight and focused at the moment. It's the best line-up we’ve had since forever.

Marduk often speaks about Nazi Germany and the Second World War. You seem to have a lot in common with death metal veterans Vader in that field. Is your interest in history one of the reasons you have toured together so many times?

Not in the beginning. One of the reasons we toured together a lot is that we have the same promoter. We became very good friends with Vader and playing with them is always a pleasure and a good chance to spend time talking about some aspects of the history since Peter and I are both interested in lots of similar things, such as the Second World War. We often discuss the history books we read and films we’ve watched. Once when we were on a European tour and we had a day off in France, Peter and I went to the panzer museum, which was just great.

A relatively small population of ten million Swedes has been able to produce an endless number of groundbreaking and essential metal bands. Scandinavia also has a very high percentage of people who listen to metal. What do you think is the reason for this and would you dare to explain it?

For some reason, it seems everybody here is somehow involved in a scene, playing in a band or doing something connected with metal. For example, my hometown of Norrköping has around 90,000 inhabitants but there are quite a few awesome bands around here. Let's mention the occult hard rock band Year of the Goat or the doom group Griftegård. And there are more. I can’t really explain why Scandinavians love metal so much, but the extreme stuff might simply be in our blood.

fot. by Herman Stehouwer

Do you care if Marduk is called a black or death metal band? Is it important to you to be labeled as black metal?

The line between death and black metal is pretty vague nowadays. For example, I understand Morbid Angel's "Altars of Madness" as a black metal record but most people would say it's a typical death metal album. I personally think about Marduk as a black metal band but, honestly, I don't really care what people call it. It's extreme metal with a strong dedication to all things dark and satanic and that's all what matters.

Your other band Death Wolf (previously known as Devil's Whorehouse) is clearly influenced by Danzig. Taking a look at your tattoo, it is easy to figure out that you are a huge fan of his work. Are the Misfits and Danzig bands which originally got you interested in dark, disturbing music? You also played with Danzig a couple of times…

Originally it was Samhain, his band between the Misfits and Danzig, that got my attention but at the time I was so much more interested in very extreme metal so I only rediscovered and got hooked up with his albums later on. Danzig is a huge inspiration to me. In a way, I see my reflection in him. He never cared what people were saying about his music and never changed because the press was criticizing him. He always kept doing his thing, following his own path. In that sense we are similar. We had an opportunity to tour twice, in 2002 and 2010. I really appreciate that we had a chance to do it, we felt privileged. Being able to see one of your favourite bands every night is amazing.

What's up with the as yet unreleased EP "Portraits Of Dead Children"?

It was a very primitive recording. Done with not the best equipment at a time when Legion and B.War had left the band after "World Funeral". I still have it somewhere and maybe one day I will put it on our website or maybe go back to the studio to restore it but I don't have exact plans for it at the moment.

What message are you sending to the world with your alias Evil?

I don't think evil is a thing you can or should explain, you need to figure it out for yourself. That nickname was strictly connected to what I was doing in Abruptum. I didn't really choose that name. It was given to me by the former band members All and It. With Marduk I never use a nickname, I don't need it, I know who I am.

There is a saying that you should know your enemy to be able to fight it. Does being a radical antichristian and not knowing the Bible and its message make sense to you?

You definitely should know your enemy if you want to fight it right. The Bible inspires me in so many ways. My interest in reading came originally in school. First it was rather in history books, then it was the Bible. Later over the years it developed into something bigger. What really drives me is to represent the exact opposite to what Christianity stands for.

ESOTERIC - Voices from a Distant Place

There are only a couple of bands as important to the extreme doom metal scene as the English legion Esoteric. Starting their crusade across the oblivion of the darkest of metal arts in 1992, the Birmingham-based band now has six full-lengths under its belt, the last three of which were released by the French label Season of Mist. The newest offering "Paragon of Dissonance" and the previous "The Maniacal Vale" indisputably moved Esoteric to the forefront of the genre. The band's vocalist, guitar player, composer and producer Greg Chandler talked to We Wither about the secrets of the doom rituals.

Like 2008's "The Maniacal Vale", the new album "Paragon of Dissonance" is a double cd effort. Do you feel confident that you can keep the attention of the listener for almost 100 minutes? Or maybe the record is not necessarily meant to be listened in its entirety?
Well, we prefer to release long albums as the song writing is usually quite varied and so the songs can sound and feel rather different from one another. For us it is more interesting to record more material to bridge the gap between each album. The listener can listen to the album as they see fit, whether it’s just a song or two at a time, one disc or even both discs.

What emotions accompany the creative writing process? Are they similar feelings to those the listener experiences, such as alienation, desperation etc?
The emotions that we try to recreate in the music come from the emotions, thoughts and experiences that inspire the creative song-writing process. We write almost always from feel alone rather than set formulas or goals. It’s important for us to write music that has a deep personal meaning, so that it has a firm basis in how it relates to us and our own minds, so that when performing the music we have a strong bond and relation to what we are expressing. The listener will hear the music based on their own interpretation of it and it will vary considerably depending on how well they can relate to the emotional content and feelings within the music.

There is a saying that good literature comes from pain, depression, disappointment, grief. Does that also apply to music somehow?
In some instances, for some forms of music I would say yes. For some, maybe not. It just depends I think. I think strong emotions that have a deep meaning to the author will always feel quite strong to the recipient that can relate to the content the author deals with, whether it is literature, music, visual art and so on.

fot. by James Robinson (www.jwrobinson.co.uk)

Esoteric has been around for almost 20 years. Did the perception of your music change much in that time, are people more open to such an extreme form of music now that they were in the early ‘90s?
On a general level, I would say yes, certainly. When the band first formed and we released our first demo and then album and were playing a handful of live shows the reaction was very different to what it is now. Many complained that the music was too slow, particularly those listening to a lot of death or black metal, those that listened to traditional or stoner doom seemed to dislike the fact that we were a mixture of different styles and influences and were not “true” doom. We had very little acceptance of what we did in the beginning of the band’s existence and even less people who actually appreciated the music. We always knew that our music would not be popular, and even now, almost 20 years later I think there are still very many who cannot relate to our music or find anything they can appreciate within it. This never deterred us and never will, after all, we write music from the heart and I think that is something that is important for any musician, as it means the music will always have a strong sense of meaning to the writer. By the same token, there always was and probably always will be some level of support from those that want to hear something different to the mainstream and to the more generic forms of music, and I think that no matter what style of music you play or write, bands will always find some people who can relate to and appreciate what you do, it just takes time for those who might be interested to find you. We always seemed to gain more support from music journalists and writers than fans of music and I think this is still the case. And I think this is because those who listen to and review many different bands are perhaps more receptive to appreciate something that is a little different to the norm.

To understand what Esoteric is all about, you need to patiently digest and contemplate your records. It doesn't make any sense to do it some other way because it simply takes time. If only a few people are willing to do so, are you still happy to continue?
Of course, and I touched upon this briefly in the previous answer. I think where music is concerned, it is important to write something that is personal and has a great deal of meaning to the author, because it has a strong relation which is important for something that will be written over time, rehearsed and performed live again and again. Something that is written to appease others will quickly fade in time and not hold a deeper meaning for the artist, but something that is written from the heart will remain close to the artist and maintain a strong level of passion when it is performed.

"Paragon of Dissonance" is a record which makes time stop and transfers the listener to another dimension where the outer world doesn't exist. Is your music meant to offer something else than just tunes to bang your head to?
I think music has many different purposes and different styles of music and even different songs by the same bands or different sections of the same songs will contain different elements, emotions, and evoke different thoughts and emotions in the listener. Our music is written as a transposition of the darker sides of our minds and emotions, thoughts, experiences, observations, philosophies and so on. It is written with a purpose, it is written mostly when we feel inspired to write, to express such emotions that might otherwise be destructive or consuming. For those that can relate to what is contained within the music on a personal level it can offer a vicarious, intense journey through sound. For those that can’t it might offer nothing at all of any worth. It all depends on the disposition and tastes of the listener.

How would you define the genesis of the Esoteric sound?
It was created because we wanted to play very sorrowful, slow, dark, heavy and hateful music. So we tuned the guitars down very low and used extremely heavy sounds and a full spectrum of effects to create a huge wall of sound.

Legends like Black Sabbath and Napalm Death come from Birmingham. Is it an inspiring and unique place that makes people write angry dark music?
Birmingham is a large, dull, grey city in my eyes. It used to be an industrial city, but most manufacturing industries in the UK have now died as everything seems to be imported and government regulation really did nothing to aid its survival. There have been some efforts to modernize the city in recent years and as a result it is a mish mash of old industrial areas mostly falling into decline and modern shopping and service industries that are mainly franchises or chain stores you can find in most major cities. It is the second largest city in England and there is nothing particularly inspiring about the place. Why so many metal bands came from this area I do not know, but in addition to those cited, there was also Judas Priest, Godflesh, Bolt Thrower, and many others. There was an exhibition recently in the museum here created by the organizers of the Supersonic Festival which detailed many of the great bands from Birmingham, titled “Home of Metal”.

You're the only original member of Esoteric now. Is the band your brainchild in the sense that you write the whole thing and you gather people to perform your vision with you in the studio and then live?
Gordon Bicknell is also an original member and is still in the band. He took a break from playing within the band full time between June 2010 and November 2011 due to personal circumstances but he was in the band for most of the writing and rehearsing period for "Paragon of Dissonance" and did contribute one song of the seven found on "Paragon of Dissonance". He has been back in the band full time for the last few months and will be for the foreseeable future. I have always been the one organizing the band and the main contact for interviews and gigs, handling the recordings and production since the late nineties, etc, but in terms of song writing it has always been a group effort and on each album you will find at least 2 or 3 main song writers. To my mind it always offers a greater diversity and output when there are several writers in the band and it is more inspiring to work with like-minded musicians than to work alone or with session musicians. On "Paragon of Dissonance" myself and Jim Nolan were the main song writers, on "The Maniacal Vale", it was myself and Gordon with another 2 songs coming from Mark Bodossian (bass) and Olivier Goyet (keys). But throughout the band’s history we have always at least had a stable core of musicians who have been rehearsing every week to keep the momentum going, even when other members have come and gone or when using session musicians to complete the line up.

As usual you have been recording and producing the new album in your own Priory Recording studio. You seem to be very self-sufficient. Is it because you always know what are you going for or because nobody understands Esoteric better than you?
A bit of both I think. Firstly I only started training and then working as a sound engineer because of being so dissatisfied with working with other engineers on the earlier recordings and straight after the album session for "The Pernicious Enigma" I trained and then started to work full time in studios. This was both so that I could capture the sound of the band as we intended and also so that I had a career and way of earning a living that interested me and I could enjoy. The session for "The Pernicious Enigma" album recording was plagued with problems at the studio, a disinterested sound engineer, etc, and at the time no one seemed to have any idea of how to capture the band’s sound. It was rare to find engineers sympathetic to metal recordings back then, let alone one who could understand and appreciate how an experimental metal band like Esoteric should be recorded. "Metamorphogenesis" was the first album we recorded entirely by ourselves in 1998 and with only a year or so experience in studios it was quite a steep learning curve for me, coupled with an extremely limited budget and equipment. So the album did not turn out too well overall in terms of sound and production, yet it was infinitely closer to what Esoteric actually sounded like compared to previous efforts. By the time we recorded "Subconscious Dissolution..." in 2002 we managed to really start to do justice to the sound of the band and I would say that this was the first album we recorded where the production and mix did the songs proud. We’ve always tried to be self-sufficient where possible, partly due to budget but also due to the fact that we like to have control as we have always had a very clear idea of how we want the music to sound. It was just not having the technical know-how that prevented us from doing this on the early albums.

Do you enjoy listening to bands such as Mournful Congregation, Evoken and Comatose Vigil or as a listener do you prefer completely different sounds and emotions?
I do listen to some extreme doom and I have always had contact with John Paradiso from Evoken over the years and used to be in touch with Damon Good from Mournful Congregation back in the days of snail mail. Comatose Vigil more so in recent years, since befriending Anton, one of the organizers of the Moscow Doom Fest which we’ve played twice, whose last album I mixed and mastered here at the studio. I do listen to some extreme doom and always did, though back when Esoteric started I didn’t really know of any other bands until after we started releasing our music and found bands through fanzines and writing to other bands, etc, like Unholy, Skepticism, etc. Great bands. But it was only Winter that we were aware of and listened to at the time as there was really nothing around back then. When Esoteric started we appreciated the slower parts of death metal bands like Autopsy and then bands like early Cathedral and My Dying Bride, Paradise Lost, etc, but we wanted to do something with our own style and be experimental, not just create a band that was heavily influenced by our musical tastes. Extreme doom then and more specifically funeral doom didn’t really exist to most people except in the depths of the underground, and printed DIY fanzines that covered this type of music were generally months and months out of date before they were completed.

Kati Astraeir again created a fantastic piece of art for the cover of "Paragon of Dissonance". How did you meet? Did she listen to the album before working on it or did you just chose one of her previous works?
We worked with Kati before on "The Maniacal Vale". She created the artwork for that album too. We found her through a good friend of ours, Michaela, who discovered her work while we were looking for an artist for that album. She’s an excellent artist and we were confident that she could create something that was fitting for our music and lyrics and she delivered beyond our expectations. So we decided to ask her to do the artwork for "Paragon of Dissonance" too. The layout and graphic design was handled both times by our good friend Mauro from Eibon Records and Italian band Canaan who is extremely talented and experienced with such matters. He was able to take the artwork created by Kati and turn it into a booklet and design that was consistent and visually striking for each album. With both albums we gave Kati working demos of the music and lyrics to draw inspiration and feeling from when creating the artwork and the end result is extremely fitting to the content of the music and lyrics.